tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17898384.post4050942797071656251..comments2024-03-25T21:41:06.801-07:00Comments on Mobile Opportunity: The war between Nokia and AppleMichael Macehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17966107280587843091noreply@blogger.comBlogger82125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17898384.post-33983075451001047562011-11-02T21:22:27.620-07:002011-11-02T21:22:27.620-07:00Anonymous, a lot of Nokia fans have accused me of ...Anonymous, a lot of Nokia fans have accused me of being an Apple shill, so maybe I'm hitting the right balance. I hope so, anyway.Michael Macehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17966107280587843091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17898384.post-28897403822748615372011-10-28T05:37:51.861-07:002011-10-28T05:37:51.861-07:00One question: In hindsight, have you always been a...One question: In hindsight, have you always been a shill for Nokia?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17898384.post-22274208212542919942011-05-02T22:51:23.398-07:002011-05-02T22:51:23.398-07:00Hi, Mus.
Thanks for the note. Please give me som...Hi, Mus.<br /><br />Thanks for the note. Please give me some more information on what you'd like to do with the information. What is your project?<br /><br />To send me the info, click on the "Contact" link at the top of the page. That will give you my address.Michael Macehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17966107280587843091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17898384.post-11732459177257904162011-04-19T11:21:19.245-07:002011-04-19T11:21:19.245-07:00Hello Michael,
A very relevant post indeed. You s...Hello Michael,<br /><br />A very relevant post indeed. You sure showed people the revelation occuring between two major brands of the world.<br /><br />I would like to request if I could get permission from you to extract some information that you've provided in this post for my project purposes. It will really help in providing much information that is relevant to the project I'm doing. So if it's possible, please do reply to this comment. Thank you.<br /><br />With regards,<br />MusMusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17898384.post-63104911428962311712010-12-21T22:35:36.575-08:002010-12-21T22:35:36.575-08:00For me they are the best cellphones. Nokia is a lo...For me they are the best cellphones. Nokia is a long-lasting kind of phones while iPhone is hi-tech and very technology oriented.<br /><br />Thanks for sharing that kind of topic.Armil@phone companieshttp://www.allconnect.com/ssc-phone-localPhone/phone-local-long-distance.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17898384.post-79181029200095886902009-10-25T11:07:33.630-07:002009-10-25T11:07:33.630-07:00And what one does when perfect Apple OS hangs on P...And what one does when perfect Apple OS hangs on Phone ? You wait till battery dries out.<br />On nokia/samsung/motorola/any actual phone, you simply take battery out and put it back in.<br /><br />If Apple OS is so super, how come such simple operation is made impossible ?<br /><br />I still buy my phone to call and not to view youtube videos nor play games, but perhaps one day I will change my behaviour on this.<br /><br />ps, still nokia communicator 9500 is/was only one running putty without any troubles.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17898384.post-62765997411799964642009-10-22T11:05:56.069-07:002009-10-22T11:05:56.069-07:00Thank you so much for taking time to present this ...Thank you so much for taking time to present this analysis!! I was desperately searching on the net for something like this when neither Swedish (where I live) or Finnish Newspapers had more information than the average "copy/paste" from the press release!<br /><br />Br /Tobias StrandhTobias Strandhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15981137110712063648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17898384.post-52600217627764460792009-05-22T09:46:43.548-07:002009-05-22T09:46:43.548-07:00The war seems to be on alright. There are claims b...The war seems to be on alright. There are claims by Symbian people that, they invented AppStore concept of downloading 3rd party apps to phones. <br /><br />http://harisankar-krishnaswamy.blogspot.com/2009/05/nokia-invented-wheel-only-it-was-square.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17898384.post-27979556685822959082008-04-28T00:56:00.000-07:002008-04-28T00:56:00.000-07:00still,i prefer nokia.nokia can provide better spea...still,i prefer nokia.<BR/>nokia can provide better speaker,and also a small reason:nokia phone is able to record video with sound... =D4everskylinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14148829758374408293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17898384.post-15355897184807183932007-10-26T23:33:00.000-07:002007-10-26T23:33:00.000-07:00BlackBerry and FacebookThis 'thick' always-on mobi...BlackBerry and Facebook<BR/><BR/>This 'thick' always-on mobile client is a perfect leveraging of the BlackBerry always-on data connection. Only BlackBerry has this type of managed connection to the device.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17898384.post-34909751804261065492007-10-17T21:57:00.000-07:002007-10-17T21:57:00.000-07:00Congrats, you called it spot on.The N810 is out ju...Congrats, you called it spot on.<BR/><BR/>The N810 is out just 11 months from the N800 debut at the Web2summit shindig.<BR/><BR/>iTunes Plus is under a buck,<BR/>Leopard is on the prowl and scraps to be fed to the 3rd party developers come Feb 2008 post-Macworld buzz.<BR/><BR/>The elephants are rumbling.<BR/><BR/>I'm going to go hug my Chumby.ccahuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04506703535097913931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17898384.post-42192523606363302007-10-01T18:05:00.000-07:002007-10-01T18:05:00.000-07:00VOIP over cellular is already alive for blackberry...VOIP over cellular is already alive for blackberry with services such as iSkoot and Lypp. But this does not help eliminate airtime and oraming charges. Only a real VOIP client operating over a 3G data pipe will acheive this. Agian I do not see the operators allowing this for consumers. But if it was marketed towards bussiness's as a PBX extension it might put set a different tone in the operators board rooms since corporate customers are seen as such a big long term asset; therefore the operators are more willing to sarifice short term ARPU to keep them happy. Of course in the end consumers will save on airtime and roaming. If RIM were to integrate this VOIP into there platform oon the network level it would give them an advantage that may go further than any hardware/softwarer details of its rivals.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17898384.post-75997105943738061912007-10-01T13:57:00.000-07:002007-10-01T13:57:00.000-07:00Interesting comment re PBX extension.RIM is alread...Interesting comment re PBX extension.<BR/><BR/>RIM is already supporting this over WiFi i.e. if the BB handset supports WiFi then in a campus environment it can communicate directly with the BES for email and the Ascendent wireless PBX for VoIP as an extension. RIM are working on combining the BES and Ascendent platforms together but currently they are separate.<BR/><BR/>But extending this out to cellular is problematic for performance reasons. A possible half way step would be for the voice to still be forwarded from PBX to the BB mobile over cellular circuits but the BB device to send back signalling to the PBX (on call, off call etc.) via the always on data path.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17898384.post-34854405942015058812007-09-30T22:38:00.000-07:002007-09-30T22:38:00.000-07:00I am wondering when we will start seeing VOIP over...I am wondering when we will start seeing VOIP over blackberry and esentially free international calling/roaming. The operators are trying hard to stop this from coming on the consumer side. I do not believe they will be able to leverage in the same way agianst corporate users wanting to extend there voice PBXes; turning cell phones into extensions of their internal phone systems. RIM may be the company best placed to handle this traffic along side email and data.<BR/><BR/>It would not really be free but a flat rate just like the email service.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17898384.post-25022018585906130062007-09-30T21:29:00.000-07:002007-09-30T21:29:00.000-07:00I'm glad you found this information useful.Just to...I'm glad you found this information useful.<BR/><BR/>Just to clarify the VPN model a little further.<BR/><BR/><I>>>in other words all mobile devices are in a Blackberry VPN. The reason for this is that RIM are applying their own proprietary transport layer over the radio network - this is very important and secures the quality of the IP connection and is what makes the <BR/>Blackberry connection so reliable - radio environments are inherently unreliable for data transmission.<BR/><BR/>Yesss. That's what I thought, but I haven't seen it explained in detail anywhere before.</I><BR/><BR/>BlackBerry devices are actually addressed from the RIM relay by their unique PIN number so that the identity of each device is completely independent of the underlying mobile operator architecture and IP addressing. This means that in another country all you have to do is put in a local SIM card that has the BlackBerry service and your device will still receive all your email without a glitch - very useful. <BR/><BR/>And as more operators make the BlackBerry service available on prepay SIM cards it will make travelling even easier and cheaper.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17898384.post-62681035418773517722007-09-30T21:02:00.000-07:002007-09-30T21:02:00.000-07:00Wow, what splendid comments. Really interesting s...Wow, what splendid comments. Really interesting stuff, and I'm learning a lot. Please post anytime.<BR/><BR/>Just a couple of notes...<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>>>in other words all mobile devices are in a Blackberry VPN. The reason for this is that RIM are applying their own proprietary transport layer over the radio network - this is very important and secures the quality of the IP connection and is what makes the <BR/>Blackberry connection so reliable - radio environments are inherently unreliable for data transmission.</I><BR/><BR/>Yesss. That's what I thought, but I haven't seen it explained in detail anywhere before.<BR/><BR/>This is also why, when RIM had an outage, the whole system went down.<BR/><BR/>By contrast, I believe in a Windows Mobile e-mail connection you connect directly to either the supplier's POP server or your employer's Exchange server. There's no intermediary. Upside: An outage at Microsoft doesn't cut off your email. Downside: Lower quality of service.<BR/><BR/>That is a <I>huge</I> difference.<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>>>So RIM are the only vendor that has a dedicated 'always-on' data pipe out to every active user. This should be very valuable for them to leverage off.</I><BR/><BR/>You can say that again.<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>>>For mobile operators Blackberry is a service that just works well and given its sophistication doesn't require too much resource to sell or support.</I><BR/><BR/>Exactly! RIM takes charge of quality of service. <BR/><BR/><BR/><I>>>This is in stark contrast to Windows Mobile or Nokia in the business space.</I><BR/><BR/>Yup. If you have trouble connecting to your Exchange server, Microsoft's likely to send you back to your IT manager for support. Not a comfortable situation for an operator who's stuck in the middle. Users generally call on the operator first for support, so RIM's more controlled architecture must feel very comforting to them.<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>>>In think they need to stick to their core maket and be careful not to lose sight of that when going after the consumer side.</I><BR/><BR/>I'm not clear if RIM thinks it's pursuing the consumer side of the communication market, or if it's trying to do entertainment phones. I am very skeptical of their ability to compete with Apple in the entertainment phone market. They're not likely to have any more success in that than Apple has selling to IT managers.Michael Macehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17966107280587843091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17898384.post-39987544206636707852007-09-30T01:59:00.000-07:002007-09-30T01:59:00.000-07:00Hi there, good questions:What I am still wondering...Hi there, good questions:<BR/><BR/><I>What I am still wondering is how blackberry seems to be a key to free international data roaming. AT&T and a bunch of operators around the world offer unlimited data plans including international for blackberry users; as far as I know none of them offer anything similar for none blackberry devices.</I><BR/>I think they do this because of the high level of compression that Blackberry applies, in the order of 10:1 over the same emails sent to other mobile devices. Most Blackberry email users use less than 5MB per month for all email including attachments, and it is only web browsing or now emailing of photos (with Curve) that is pushing usage levels beyond this. I assume that these roaming deals still have data caps in the fine print.<BR/><BR/><I>The way that it was described is that if I install any apps that route data through any route other than blackberry I would be charged at the maximum allowed data rate for all transfers. On the other hand it does not matter if its email or anyohter type of data if it passes through BES/BIS its free.</I><BR/>This is probably because they will be providing you a bundle price for data that goes via the Blackberry VPN connection (i.e. this is how the billing system will be configured), but not for data that goes via standard internet or directly into Corporate network. They could, but they can be much more confident that the Blackberry data compression will keep usage levels manageable.<BR/><BR/>But Blackberry data usage is about to explode with photo sending (size of Curve JPEG images are up to 0.5MB and cannot be further compressed without losing image quality), GPS, richer web browsers supporting RSS (again Curve), and html email support (BES 5.0?). As I raised in my previous post RIM must be facing some very difficult questions of how to scale their model whereby all data continues to transit via their infrastructure.<BR/><BR/>And I agree with your last paragraph in that Blackberry have a very distinct market and a very robust solution. Taking Michaels model of the 3? basic types of mobile device then Blackberry should be well placed to extend into the consumer side of the messaging/communications device with somthing focused, reliable and a bit cool, but they must be careful not to leave the door open to other even more specialised business devices or go too far and alienate that market.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17898384.post-71640626288234371092007-09-29T23:26:00.000-07:002007-09-29T23:26:00.000-07:00I am one that placed the first question about blac...I am one that placed the first question about blackberry; thanks for the detailed reply.<BR/><BR/>What I am still wondering is how blackberry seems to be a key to free international data roaming. AT&T and a bunch of operators around the world offer unlimited data plans including international for blackberry users; as far as I know none of them offer anything similar for none blackberry devices. If most are extremely expensive if used with none blackberry.<BR/><BR/>When I inquired at AT&T I was warned to be very carefull what I do with either a blackberry device or a palm operating on BES/BIS. The way that it was described is that if I install any apps that route data through any route other than blackberry I would be charged at the maximum allowed data rate for all transfers. On the other hand it does not matter if its email or anyohter type of data if it passes through BES/BIS its free.<BR/><BR/>I am really wondering what is so special about data transfer via BES/BIS that operators are not only willing to give unlimited access to home subscribers but ones visiting their networks as well? Perhaps operators would not be so willing to give unlimited 3G; explaining the lack of 3G blackberry phones?<BR/><BR/>On a seperate topic. I have this burning feeling that blackberry is going to be the IBM of the phone world. What I mean is the PC was a bussiness machine(blackberry.) The entertainment/household computer for the rest of us was a fight between apple, amiga, and atari(iphone and nokia.) In the end everyone used PC's in the home grown out of the IBM platform. I believe that most people have an unspoken sense of confidence in devices/systems/platforms designed for the corporate/bussiness world that leads to them becoming the all around standard even though other device may seem a better fit for the application.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17898384.post-26262156576210633832007-09-29T16:49:00.000-07:002007-09-29T16:49:00.000-07:00Michael you asked: "I have never been able to figu...Michael you asked: <I>"I have never been able to figure out all the details of how data flows through the Blackberry network, let alone money.<BR/><BR/>If anyone else knows, please post a comment."</I><BR/><BR/>So here goes...<BR/><BR/><B>1. Data flows:</B><BR/>Remember there are two Blackberry services depending on your type of email;<BR/>a. Blacberry Enterprise Server (BES) covers users where their organisation has their own email server, i.e. Exchange, Lotus Notes and Novell I think. In this case a BES server is installed into the organisation network and connects to the email server on the LAN side and the Blackberry relay infrastructure across the internet.<BR/><BR/>b. Blackberry Internet Service (BIS) - this is for users of ISP (POP/IMAP) or webmail. Here you create a web account on RIM's infrastructure and then you can enter up to 10 email addresses which the relay servers will fetch for you and push out to your device.<BR/><BR/>In both cases, from the mobile device the data always goes from the mobile carriers data network (CDMA x or GPRS/EDGE) through a dedicated link to RIM's relay servers, in other words all mobile devices are in a Blackberry VPN. The reason for this is that RIM are applying their own proprietary transport layer over the radio network - this is very important and secures the quality of the IP connection and is what makes the <BR/>Blackberry connection so reliable - radio environments are inherently unreliable for data transmission.<BR/><BR/>Then if you are running a BES server the data will go from the Blackberry relays across the secure internet connection to the BES server to reach your company LAN for email, or out to the web via your company web proxy thereby complying with all existing IT policies.<BR/><BR/>If you are using the BIS service then your email, web traffic etc. goes directly out to the internet from the Blackberry server. I.e. have you noticed if you use the BIS web browser Google recognises you as being from Canada, although this will change as RIM decentralises their infrastructure regionally.<BR/><BR/><B>2. Money Flows</B><BR/>RIM is doing very nicely out of Blackberry with multiple revenue streams:<BR/>a. Handsets - and as you noted these are getting much better.<BR/>b. BES software and licences - every BES user requires a 1 off user license. BES server software has been free for download over the last 12months but only comes with 1 user license, and then requires a fairly expensive upgrade to expand it beyond 15 users.<BR/>c. Monthly user charge - every active user earns RIM about US$8 per month. So as the number of users increases this monthly stream will be increasing as well - I haven't seen any figures reported lately but I am guessing they are at around 7-10million users globally, and growing fast.<BR/><BR/>So RIM are the only vendor that has a dedicated 'always-on' data pipe out to every active user. This should be very valuable for them to leverage off.<BR/><BR/>And from what I have seen their monthly sales are continuing to increase. By aligning themselves exclusively with the mobile operators as the sales channel and allowing the operators to generate sales of data connections they have secured a lot of loyalty from them. For mobile operators Blackberry is a service that just works well and given its sophistication doesn't require too much resource to sell or support. This is in stark contrast to Windows Mobile or Nokia in the business space.<BR/><BR/>But it will very intersting to see what Blackberry does next. They are trying to move into the pro-sumer/consumer space and their latest device (Curve) does a pretty good job - the camera and media manager are OK. They have been very slow to support GSM's 3G/HSDPA (as they have supported US CDMA EV-DO for a while) and again I presume this is for reliability and battery life reasons. Also they will face a challene in scaling their relay infrastructure as the web traffic volumes increase with improving browser.<BR/><BR/>RIM has come from a very strong engineering background in industrial mobile radio data products and have leveraged that well into mobile email. In think they need to stick to their core maket and be careful not to lose sight of that when going after the consumer side. For example their handsets while becoming more attractive have also become more fragile. I know there is market demand for ruggedised devices in the business market.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17898384.post-78421369344689353772007-09-27T08:29:00.000-07:002007-09-27T08:29:00.000-07:00First of all kudos for the great analysis. I do th...First of all kudos for the great analysis. I do think that there are some parts of the branding that could be analyzed from a different perspective, and also there are some missing facts.<BR/><BR/>To me, a consumer brand value is in part a measure of how much trust the consumer has in the company. Today I think it is fair to say that consumers as a whole are afraid of big corporations and their perceived power and perceived desire to control the life of the consumer. This is one of the energy sources behind blogging and internet startups, as that is non-corporate mass market communication. <BR/><BR/>When large corporations like Nokia, Apple, Google, Yahoo etc. move into online services, and online communities, they are in fact asking the consumer to trust them with their personal life and personal information. This comes down to "who do you trust?". I believe this is one critical element where the brand will work for or against you. <BR/><BR/>It is a fact, that Nokia is the worlds 6th best brand http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/toc/06_32/B399606globalbrands.htm, In fact, Nokia is the biggest global brand for a company based outside USA. <BR/><BR/>I think the importance of branding and ability to manage that brand while moving into services is extremely important for corporations over the next years. From a US perspective, the Nokia brand is properly underestimated, but US only account for 300,000,000 souls out of 6,600,000,000.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17898384.post-85996523018359756822007-09-22T02:20:00.000-07:002007-09-22T02:20:00.000-07:00I agree that the premesis for the article are flaw...I agree that the premesis for the article are flawed. The war is more a media hype than a real thing. Secondly the market is so large and fragmanted, even in the so called 'young adult' regime in a global perspective, that the foundation of the article looks bizarre.<BR/><BR/>The 'war' is in the very low end regime. Who can shuffle out most fancy looking phones that does the job. 90% of the population just don't care as long as the phone works, looks OK, cost nothing and to a lesser extent play music.<BR/><BR/>Then there is the iPod <BR/>misconception. This is a US thing <BR/>and has not scaled out globally. <BR/>The reason for this is low end <BR/>phones with mp3 capability. The iPod has not made mp3 players obselete, low-cost phones have.<BR/><BR/>The war you are talking about is a war in a niche within a niche where the consumers are mainly fanboys. It will not be 'won' by anyone. I mean, some like Ferrari and some like Jaguar, but most people couldn't care less.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17898384.post-17748750717037844382007-09-20T22:14:00.000-07:002007-09-20T22:14:00.000-07:00Anonymous wrote:>>the problem that I see is that t...<B>Anonymous wrote:</B><BR/><BR/><I>>>the problem that I see is that this can not be good for the prospect of seemless roaming at the best price rate plans with all functunality such as visual voicemail.</I><BR/><BR/>Good point. I wonder how that'll work.<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>>>Now if the operators owned and maintained the WiFi network that would be a different story.</I><BR/><BR/>I think that's sort of what TMobile has been doing in Germany, right?<BR/><BR/><BR/><B>Anonymous wrote:</B><BR/><BR/><I>>>The french are not 'gadget geeks' in the way that many from other european lands are.</I><BR/><BR/>That's a really good reminder. It's very easy for an American to use the term "European," but in reality it often doesn't mean much. The differences between the countries are enormous.<BR/><BR/>When I was at Apple, Macs sold <I>much</I> better in France than they did in Germany, for example. And at Palm, our share in Switzerland was much higher than any other country in Europe. I never got a clear answer why.<BR/><BR/><BR/><B>Anonymous wrote:</B><BR/><BR/><I>>>the assumption that the article based on is inherently flawed. This "war" between Nokia and Apple has been blown out of scale in recent days....nobody asks the very question why a phone is purchased.</I><BR/><BR/>Yeah, but I didn't say that Apple and Nokia were fighting over the phone market. I said they were fighting over the mobile computing market, and specifically on the youth sector in that market.<BR/><BR/>The problem for the other phone companies is that they believe their margins in the future will come from markets like that, because voice only phones are commoditizing.<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>>>Let’s not forget Samsung still has the thinnest phones around and RAZR comes in more colors than iPods, yet they all do this one function incredibly well, call.</I><BR/><BR/>I agree completely. But then look at all the investment Samsung and Motorola are putting into smartphones. That's the part of their business that's at risk, in my opinion.<BR/><BR/>About 60% of mobile phone users don't want to pay extra for anything other than voice. That market won't go away, but it's going to be very price-competitive. If you're the low-cost phone vendor, you should do fine. The trouble is that right now, Nokia is the low-cost champion. So the other guys are bracketed between Nokia at the bottom and Nokia at the top...Michael Macehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17966107280587843091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17898384.post-24668802567926576512007-09-20T16:01:00.000-07:002007-09-20T16:01:00.000-07:00Well written, but the assumption that the article ...Well written, but the assumption that the article based on is inherently flawed. This "war" between Nokia and Apple has been blown out of scale in recent days. People have been bombarded(or rather “marketed”) with the terms such as "multi-touch", "GPS", "Music store", yet nobody asks the very question why a phone is purchased. People buy phones for different reasons, $0 after rebate, business integration, it's PINK! You name it. Music/entertainment is important yet it is accessible in so many ways in our life that our phone can do or do without just fine. <BR/><BR/>Take an example in automotive world, BMW and MB (or any brands you want) often have stiff competition in technology and performance, but does this have any sales impact on Honda’s Civic or Toyota’s Camry?<BR/><BR/>There’s always clash of titans, but to say the little guys are out of the league is a very big overstatement. Let’s not forget Samsung still has the thinnest phones around and RAZR comes in more colors than iPods, yet they all do this one function incredibly well, call.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17898384.post-17495818080304339072007-09-17T17:14:00.000-07:002007-09-17T17:14:00.000-07:00I would not take a french release to mean european...I would not take a french release to mean european release. Apple may feel that GPRS/EDGE is good enough for france but not a country like germany or sweden. If fact they may want to be sure that the french version is more affordable.<BR/><BR/>The french are not 'gadget geeks' in the way that many from other european lands are.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17898384.post-23200473184515577052007-09-16T23:19:00.000-07:002007-09-16T23:19:00.000-07:00i find it very interesting that putting together a...i find it very interesting that putting together all the pieces it seems that apple is choosing different operators in each country T-mobile for germany, Vodaphone for UK, Orange for france.<BR/><BR/>I believe thoose are also the most popular operators in each country. <BR/><BR/>the problem that I see is that this can not be good for the prospect of seemless roaming at the best price rate plans with all functunality such as visual voicemail. <BR/><BR/>i also hear that operators are upgrading networks to EDGE since most euro operators went from GPRS straight to 3G. this seems like an enourmous investment for one phone unless there is something I do not understand about upgrading cellular basestations to EDGE.<BR/><BR/>So it comes to this. Does apple found out there is no way any network is going to allow there network to overloaded with streaming music and youtube videos(these two things are what the iPhone is all about.) So they want to keep it EDGE and get people used doing all the heavy data stuff on WiFi. Also on a pay by the KB data plan the lack of 3G will actually save some customers a lot of money as they only watch a third as many you tube video in a session. <BR/><BR/>Personally I do not care much for WiFi on my phone; I see it as a sort of invasion of my network. Now if the operators owned and maintained the WiFi network that would be a different story.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com